No More Mercenaries: Creating Loyal Teams in a Remote World feat. Kendall Wallace

Tired of team members treating work like a transaction? In this episode of Taking Back Monday, Kendall Wallace reveals how to shift from a mercenary culture to a loyal, high-performing team—especially in the remote world. Get ready to discover the strategies behind creating true connection, building trust, and why loyal teams always outperform the competition.

Kendall, a former big tech leader, shares her experience of transforming disconnected teams into united forces by focusing on alignment, trust, and intentional leadership. If you're leading a remote team and wondering how to foster deeper engagement, this episode will arm you with practical tips and actionable insights. Learn how to create a culture that retains top talent and inspires your team to go above and beyond.

Key Takeaways:

• The importance of intentional connection in building high-trust, high-performing teams.
• How to overcome the "mercenary" mindset in remote work environments.
• Practical exercises to foster alignment and loyalty within your team.

It's time to say "goodbye" to the Sunday Scaries.

Connect with Alyssa
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Transcript

Alyssa Nolte (YETI): 0:00

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Taking Back Monday. I am so excited you decided to join us and say goodbye to the Sunday Scaries and hello to more meaningful work. And I am beyond excited to introduce you to my new friend, Kendall. Welcome, Kendall.

Kendall Wallace: 0:12

Hi, thanks for having me, Alyssa. Appreciate it.

Alyssa Nolte (YETI): 0:15

So 1 of the things that we're always looking for is new takes on how people are really changing the way we think about work. And 1 of the things that you do, I think is really interesting is focus less on the process of work in the experience of work and more on the relationships that we build inside of our workplaces. So tell us a little bit more about how you got into that.

Kendall Wallace: 0:38

That's exactly right. Yeah. Um, well, my story is a little complicated. I worked in big tech and actually the, the long and short of it is I was fired for not being a good teammate and that was a very, I mean, you know, whether you're laid off fired, you know, you, you have these questionable times of like, what did I do wrong? Right? And it really made me laser in. On, uh, the not only the things that I could have done differently, but also the systemic challenges where we never fully aligned as a team, you know, like, in a group of 10 on a team, inevitably, like, 3 were probably left out of the decision making process, not feeling seen, heard and valued while the other 7 went ahead. And I think real alignment, you know, actually creates a desirable place to work. It's it's how people respond to those questions. You know, those surveys every 6 months. Like, why do you want to stay? Or how long do you want to stay here? And then they reply multiple years. But it's the people who don't feel like. Truly part of the decision making process, or like, their value is actually seen and part of the team that will just Irish goodbye and just switch teams or, you know, go to a different company or, you know, have conflict and I think. There's a real opportunity, especially in this distributed work times that we are in where many people are working remotely to have something better than, you know, what we've had before. So that's why I, I develop in all my, um, team gatherings. It's really a lot of virtual as well as in person off sites to really build trust, build connection and create alignment. Right.

Alyssa Nolte (YETI): 2:39

I'm just like sitting here taking notes because I have so many directions. My brain wants to go with this conversation. So, you know, you mentioned that, you know, you were let go from a team because you weren't a good team player and long time listeners to the podcast know that it's my personal belief that your team dynamics is almost solely on the leader of that team. So tell us a little bit more of that situation. Like, what could your leader have done differently to draw you in?

Kendall Wallace: 3:07

Yeah, it's an interesting, it's an interesting circumstance, because on that, so there's, I'll answer that twofold, because as, as your listeners know, there's usually a leader that's a horizontal leader on the team, right? Almost like the quarterback of the team, if you will. It's a peer, but they are in the leader position. So that particular leader had a vision for the product direction. I was working on a product team. And had a true vision for the way they wanted it to go. And mind you, the thing that they didn't share with me that I've now come to understand is they had just so much pressure coming from all the different parties, right? They're trying to police. And so they had a vision. And then I was in a role though, that where I was judged as a researcher, right? You're as research on a product team, you're basically judged based on how your ability to influence the product direction. But when you have someone who doesn't listen to what the research says, even though the research is showing over and over again, that the product direction they wanted to take it in is not working with the customers that it's designed to work with. So. When you have that and and mind you, my entire ability to get promoted and stuff was based on my ability to influence this direction. And 1 person's like, well, I don't care what the research says. We're not going in that direction. You know, what starts off as a, as a minor misalignment really becomes like this, you know, almost listless like bear that wells up at me. That's like, you know, in that situation that was like, wait a second. I'm not, you know, there's no way for me to show my value on this team and then, you know, in these moments of, of misunderstanding, they really lead to this, like, survival, like, oh, I will prove you wrong type of thing. It can get exacerbated. And so. And the thing I didn't know about that scenario at the time that I now see just so wholeheartedly is that the quarterbacks of the team, especially what I've learned about about that particular role that that was a product manager. And what's interesting after serving a lot of product teams is usually the UX researcher, which was my role, usually has conflict with the product manager. That is like kind of, that's kind of a pattern. Right? Right. Now, what was fascinating, though, is that when I surveyed a bunch of product managers. They don't necessarily have conflict with the researcher. They have conflict with all sorts of different people because they're like managing

Alyssa Nolte (YETI): 5:53

all these different groups. They're like the traffic cop, right? Like, they have all these people coming in with. So it's so funny that you say this because we don't know each other before this call. I, for 10 years, led a team of researchers. Who went in as the outside third party. So we were an outside agency and we would come in and I would always tell people, look, my job here is to be the referee. You have all of these ideas. We are here to advocate for your users. You're not going to like what we have to say, but we're going to tell you the truth. And that was like, so hard to be in that position sometimes. Cause you have VP, whoever who makes. 10x what I do sitting there with their opinions. And you have to stand up and say, I understand that these are your opinions, but you're wrong. And here's why, right? That is a terrifying position to be in.

Kendall Wallace: 6:37

And it's just, it's really tricky. What I've seen work then in that quarterback position, the product manager position, who's dealing with all these XFN is really their job is to help create alignment. To make sure that all 10 of those people on that product team are aligned and that they've felt hurt. And there's simple tactics to do that. And like, for example, just to give your listeners 1 that I think has been super helpful is when you're moving in a product direction, actually. You can do this either visually on a zoom call or or in a meeting room, but say, okay, we're going to move forward with this direction on a scale of 1 to 55 being the highest and most supportive. You know, how do you guys feel? Where do you stand on moving forward? And then you can see visually on their hands. Everybody puts puts up their hands and you can see visually where everybody stands and anybody 3 or less. Then has to really come back with what it would take to get them to a four or five so that they can have that alignment and just critical because when you don't have those moments before a decision is made, then, you know, it's just people are left out and you get these and you get people starting to detach and that's where I think real leadership is, as I've talked with, um, other people. Other neuroscientists and other coaches is like the real leadership is actually when you see that detachment leaning in and naming it

Alyssa Nolte (YETI): 8:13

and calling it out and making sure that it's not just like, I'm the leader and this is where we're going. And this is and if you're not with me, then you're against me. So get off my boat. Right. And I've seen the most successful leaders that I've seen. Do a couple of things differently. They don't set goals. They don't set outcomes. They set intentions and they say, here's where we're going and I'm going to give you the why behind it and I'm going to emphasis on the why. So yes, I want to build feature a like whatever you want to go. I want to build a chat bot that I'm going to put on the corner of our website. Right? Give me a why. Tell me why we're going there. Well. Why for your team? It's because it's going to give us something that we are building towards. It's going to help shape the future of the company. You have an opportunity to be a part of something bigger than yourself that is more than just a 9 to 5 and is something that's truly going to change the game. We're building the first ever, you know, chatbot or whatever, but then also tying it to your intentions behind the business. And we believe because we're going to build this chatbot, we're going to see a 10x in revenue growth. A 10X in revenue growth means we're all getting bonuses, we're all getting raises, we're all getting promotions, right? And tying it not only to the emotional experience that your team is having, but tying it to business outcomes and how this specific activity that we're going to undertake, whether it's a product, an initiative, simply Optimizing the way we do our job, tying it to the business changes that conversation for both your stakeholders who want to hear why you want to do your project, but also your team who want more than just this is a job and you're getting your paycheck. People want to feel like they belong and like, they matter. And like, they're making a difference and not just punching a clock.

Kendall Wallace: 9:53

Absolutely. Yeah. I love what you just said there, Alyssa. Like, it's, it's absolutely about, um, Thank you. Yeah, using that time to when we do have layoffs and when people are in this survival mode, how you can assuage that and not have everybody out to ship their own features and be out for their own selves is to, is to utilize that in person time or, or create connected time, even virtually where you do create exactly that, that intentional alignment, because when you come back to that, even though it might be idealistic, It sure is more fun than like this kind of survival mentality that's overly competitive that creates a toxic environment, you know,

Alyssa Nolte (YETI): 10:43

100 percent and I've always had the fortunate experience to work with much smaller teams. I've been in like a small business startup. We consult. With big tech corporations, and I was maybe naive when I first started consulting with these organizations. I, I've been working with people who, um, who really wanted the project to be successful and, and it was mutual success, mutual support, mutual success. And then I got into this environment where it was much more corporate, and I didn't realize, like, the dog eat dog world that some people kind of live in. And what I experienced was. What I'll call like corporate antibodies. I didn't realize that I had stepped into someone else's territory and that by stepping into their territory, I was threatening their position. And all of a sudden I started seeing like backbiting and back channeling and all of these things. And I'm sitting here going, whoa. I just wanted to come help. I just want the project to be successful. I don't care if I get the credit, like, let's just do good. Let's do good work. Right. And I had this corporate antibody coming at me and all of a sudden I found myself in like a targeted position. It was really jarring for someone who's never really had to experience that before.

Kendall Wallace: 11:52

Yeah, it's, uh, I think that's part of the systemic challenge, though, of having. The bonus structures a lot of times based on individual performance instead of team performance. I think there's something there, you know, you, you look at, um, I'm reminded of. There was this amazing example of Tom Brady when he was like crushing it, and uh, he actually, Gronk, needed to get a couple more yards to get this million dollar bonus. And he just straight up ignored the play call so that he could get his buddy the bonus. And like, that's teammateship. That is like, trust.

Alyssa Nolte (YETI): 12:33

Yes.

Kendall Wallace: 12:33

And These are the elements to have high performing teams is trust. So you're not going to like, magically have it if you don't invest time in it. That's why it's like, incredibly important and healthy to to have. regular moments of intentional connection. And like, I'm sorry, but I've lived it. And I, it doesn't work when you like bring people together for dinners and drinks. It certainly works better than nothing, but like dinners and drinks that are kind of unorganized don't necessarily foster the conversations that need to happen when so and so who needs to bond with somebody else. They're sitting at opposite ends, like at the table, like good. That's not. That's not bringing together what you need to do. I mean, that's why, that's why you have a facilitator or you facilitate yourself, but you facilitate intentional, deliberate, designed exercises to create connection across these cross functional partners that need to know each other, to have trust. So they're not second guessing. And it, because when they second guess, it also creates longer processes. You know, it's, it's this double checking type of situation and I'll tell you one other thing too is, um, you mentioned what can leaders do, you know, there's another aspect of when leaders see conflict between 2 people. You have to be a self aware enough to not insert yourself in, in taking sides. That is a huge mistake I've seen. Uh, and it's really this, this triangulation where, you know, you go from the outside to then 1 of those 2 people in the conflict becomes on the outside when this alignment. When that 3rd party inserts themselves and instead it's like. You know, if they want to be involved in some way, it's like, okay, creating a coaching opportunity for both of those people in the same room here. And, you know, it's yeah, it's not this getting in the middle of it for sure.

Alyssa Nolte (YETI): 14:45

Right? Right. Almost like facilitating or mediating rather rather than like. Arbitrating, right? You're not coming in as the leader to say, you're right. You're wrong. You're coming in to say, we're going to have a conversation and get to the bottom of this and then let them as adults conflict resolute themselves.

Kendall Wallace: 15:04

Yeah, and at the end of the day too, I mean, this is part of what I do in some of my journaling exercises in my off sites is really create the opportunity for what those individuals might be projecting from their past on individuals they're seeing now, because 99 percent of the times they get triggered based on, like, for example, in my case, I'll give you my example. You know, this here is this, this. You know, person on my team, another strong willed woman who, um, you know, didn't make me feel seen, heard, or valued. It was her way or the highway. And I realized I was like, okay, where else in my life did this, did a, maybe a strong female not make me feel seen or heard. It was her way or the highway. And then it dawned on me, oh my god, was I just playing out mom shit in the workplace? Are you serious? And then it was just like, and like, how different of an experience it could have been, too, for me to have named that with that person, you know? And clearly I was triggering something else for her, you know? And it's like, wow, when you kind of create that separation. It's, it can be very powerful, you know, it's almost like

Alyssa Nolte (YETI): 16:19

that cliche, like, it's not you, it's me, right? Like, maybe, maybe it's not you. Maybe it is me. Like, maybe I'm projecting onto you. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I mean,

Kendall Wallace: 16:29

that happens

Alyssa Nolte (YETI): 16:30

so often. So I, I'm sitting here, like, aggressively remembering all of the things at times that I've done that. I'm like, oh, my gosh, was I just creating a situation that didn't actually exist? Was I interpreting behavior? Because I had a fight or flight response to it from a different situation from the past. So I think it's really important to, to look at, like, have that introspection to yourself. Am I, you know, Part of the problem. Am I the whole problem? Right? And I think both sides have to do that in order to be successful because you might not be the problem, right? You might be doing everything. You might not be projecting onto them. They might just have some baggage or some situations or just an intense amount of pressure, as you mentioned, to, to do something and have all of these people coming at them. And you're just one piece of collateral damage from their own spiral.

Kendall Wallace: 17:17

Yeah, and Nate and I don't necessarily get to those journaling moments until probably like the 3rd offsite to build. Yeah, the 1st is really about building connection. The 2nd is about building alignment. And then the 3rd is, is. We do create this space to figure out people's conflict styles and then what the team wants to do when it has conflict, and then they kind of decide on a conflict style for the team, which is really powerful

Alyssa Nolte (YETI): 17:43

and the ownership of that. Right? Exactly. To your point though I don't think you can really like if I'm a leader and I'm wanting to start implementing some of the things that we're talking about I think it's important for you to recognize you're not going to be able to do those things overnight like the psychological safety required in order to have these frank conversations and to to build something great is is a huge. Barrier and especially in a distributed or virtual work environment. One of the things I noticed I work from home. My entire team works from home. Most of the people that I work with. I had never actually met in person because we're all over the country and we're a small company and. I noticed when I was going to my meetings that there was no, like, water cooler time. There was no social time. When I worked in an office pre COVID, I knew, you know, the name of the dog of my coworkers, and I knew that they had softball this weekend with their friends, or that they were playing in a beach volleyball tournament, or whatever. That they had a vacation coming up, and they were really excited about it. Like, I knew those things because I'd walk through the office and we'd make small talk. Right? But in this virtual environment, all of my meetings are so tactical. We have an hour. We're in a meeting. The people are talking. Some people never talk. Some people just lurk. Some people are chatting. But there was no, like, intentional relationship building time because I just They were tactical. We were there to do a job. There was no small talk time. And I think that that was something that for me in the moment, I realized, oh, I don't know these people. Why would they go to the ends of the earth for me? If I don't even know who they are on Saturday and Sunday.

Kendall Wallace: 19:21

Well, and this is why, you know, companies. Are experiencing this, like, um, you know, especially, well, companies are experiencing this, like, lack of loyalty, you know, there's like, oh, they people are just people are just leaving just like almost like this mercenary culture. It's like, well, yeah, you have a mercenary culture because you're not spending any time to invest in the humanity.

Alyssa Nolte (YETI): 19:50

You have a mercenary culture because you have created a mercenary culture by ignoring the humanity of your people. Like, this is a problem of your own making.

Kendall Wallace: 19:59

And this is why I'm, I have to be honest with you. Like, I, you know, we are, we are making technological advances with AI, etc. And it, you know, it, it looks like, and it, it is our future. But that's why I'm going all in on the human experience element or when. Colleagues really need to deepen that connection. We know that high performing teams have high trust. We know that, like, it's correlated. And guess what? High performing teams lead to higher output. So we know that building trust in a team, it leads to positive results. I mean, uh, high trust teams actually outperformed the S& P 500 by 400%. Okay, these are, these are, um, That scale is done by the Fortune Magazine's top 100 companies, of which trust based criteria is over 60%. So, that's how people trust their managers, how they trust their teammates. Like, we know there's a correlation here. So, as we, you know, as everything becomes more and more technological, it really is. Is about creating these unique experiences and that's where I think, you know, my experiences are, I think, like, normal off sites of like, just fun and drink, you know, just fun and drinks or just escape rooms kind of miss the boat. Like, for me, it's about, okay, how do we create the connection and the fun, but then also. Create the space for some real conversations about how can we we can move work more effectively together so it's not just the either or and I think that's the dynamic approach that I really enjoy bringing and I think that's the thing that will be best for the future because that's what doesn't have this mercenary like culture you create a connection and then you have, you know, actual real conversations about working more effectively together.

Alyssa Nolte (YETI): 22:08

So one of the things that I love and that what you said is, um, you know, we talked in the beginning about intentions and understanding kind of the emotional side of the why with your team, but also the why for the business. I think you just laid it out, right? 400 times more effective if you invest in high performance team process, particularly around trust. Now I'm a firm believer that sometimes trust building exercise, Exercises can feel disingenuous, right? So I actually focus on, um, not building trust, but trust being a natural byproduct of consistent, transparent action. Right? So how do we better understand our why, what we're trying to do, right? And how do we better communicate and connect? How do we hold each other accountable in a way that you and I can work together? You know, you talked about you set your conflict resolution. How do you hold your team accountable when they're missing the mark? Right? How do you get them fired up about whatever we're going to go do together? And then how do you help them persevere when it gets tough, when we're sick of it, when it's been a while, or when we face constant barriers, how would you do that in a virtual environment? What kinds of tips or tricks do you have for teams that are distributed? Um,

Kendall Wallace: 23:26

well, for me, what I do is, uh, You know, I have a three virtual offsite sequence. Um, and really, as I mentioned before, the first one is really all about building connection. Uh, and you know, there are lessons in that too, about learning to, to talk straight with one another. Like there are these things of building trust, actually, Stephen M. Covey, uh, he wrote a book called the speed of trust that maybe some of your listeners might want to listen or, uh, read. And. You know, some of the principles there are just it's simple doing what you're saying you're going to do, you know, taught learning to talk straight and sometimes when we aren't used to that behavior facilitating simple exercises of really doing that. I know that sounds may sound juvenile, but it actually when people aren't doing it, it's just putting into practice the basic fundamentals that we all really need to have trust,

Alyssa Nolte (YETI): 24:27

right?

Kendall Wallace: 24:27

The things we

Alyssa Nolte (YETI): 24:28

learn in kindergarten, right? Like those kindergarten behaviors of your teacher says, we're going to go out to recess and then takes you out to recess. You start to build trust with your teacher that your teacher says, we're going to recess. We're going to recess, right? Right. Could you imagine if like kindergarten, your teacher Teachers played the game of like, we're going to go to recess. Oh, but first we're going to do, you know, six hours of of math, right? That trust would start to degrade with the at that fundamental level as kindergartners. They would understand their teacher doesn't mean what they say. And yet we act this way with adults. We say, oh, we're going to give you bonuses, but only if you do these things exactly the way we want you to do that. But we're not going to tell you what those things are.

Kendall Wallace: 25:07

Well, it's funny. I was, um. I was talking with someone last week, and they gave me a classic example that that is that I'll share with you now, which is just that their manager consistently every week. Would go over 30 minutes on this 1 meeting and consistently I'm getting like,

Alyssa Nolte (YETI): 25:25

2nd hand rage.

Kendall Wallace: 25:28

Well, and I think. You know, so much of what I've learned about moving the needle really is about having embodied leadership actually exemplify the behavior that they're seeking from their, from their teams. Like, you can't, you can't say, hey, everybody be on time to the meeting or Laura, like, let's block off this time and then not be accountable to the time yourself.

Alyssa Nolte (YETI): 25:55

Right.

Kendall Wallace: 25:56

So that is why, like. You know, that particular team, you know, it's like, okay, regular check ins of, like, a survey. Most companies do that, but then actually, actually listening and looking at the survey feedback. That's like, we're always late. You know, this time, I mean, the funny thing is that that particular individual then. As a pattern didn't schedule. Okay. So the funny thing actually now, I'm remembering that situation. The, the manager then wanted them to work extra on a particular assignment. And her whole thing was, well, if. Why would I work extra on this? Like outside of business hours when you're already going over 30 minutes here,

Alyssa Nolte (YETI): 26:42

right? Right. You're taking away the 30 hours. I have given to you and asking you 30 more minutes. Right? Like, right.

Kendall Wallace: 26:49

Exactly. So when so it's, it's. You know, and I asked her, um, you know, have you shared this feedback? And she said, yeah, in surveys, but hadn't yet had the conversation around it. And so I think if it's really important for leaders, when the stuff comes up in surveys to really listen, and then maybe. Do some have a neutral third party, figure out some, you know, in depth interviews. Um, this is where I put my research cap on and, you know, really figure out what's needed here. But I think embodied leadership is, is just hugely important. The more I've learned, it's like, that's absolutely how to shift things.

Alyssa Nolte (YETI): 27:28

Well, and how much of an employee does it feel like you're just shouting into the void? If you've shared this feedback, obviously the survey is not getting read. It doesn't matter. Or even worse, they don't care about our feedback. So why would I continue to give my heart and soul to something where they've made it clear intentionally or unintentionally that they don't care what I have to say? Right? Right. Like, if you're not going to listen, don't ask.

Kendall Wallace: 27:51

Well, and that's why, you know, for me, one of the things I advocate for is regular, regular, um, like, almost like a monthly half hour of analyzing how are we operating as a team? Thank you. What's working, what's not working, like a frame conversation that's almost like a relationship check in, which I don't care if that sounds woo woo or not. The point is, is like a regular, you see, when you have a regular path to like kind of flush out the kinks, you have less kinks. You know, it's, it's just intuitive that way. And so that's where. To, I mean, back to your point of like the distributed workforces and like, you know, like regular, some sort of quarterly, at least, uh, opportunity to connect with colleagues to further their relationship, to build the trust is just so vital, so, so vital.

Alyssa Nolte (YETI): 28:50

Yeah, it's taking that time to, to not work and be social and connect as human beings. That will actually take your P and L from good to great. Absolutely. Yeah. So I think we could probably do this all day. I'm loving it. But who do you know, or who can you think of that is really taking back Monday? Who's really taking it to the next level?

Kendall Wallace: 29:13

You know, my coaches and he's just fantastic. Um, is Dan Martell, Dan Martell, uh, find him on Instagram. His whole philosophy is embody the best version of yourself, the 10 X version of yourself. And number two, share it with the world. And I think that's going to make the world a better place, or at least that's his philosophy. And truly it is like, he, he, he's, he walks the walk and you know, he, he really, um, has all his, He's built, sorry, over 10 million, I mean, hundreds of million dollars in businesses and he's run so many different, um, SAS companies and now he just coaches entrepreneurs and, uh, individuals on how they can be high performers and it's just really, it's, it's real deal stuff. It's no nonsense. It's, it's living your truth stuff. So definitely encourage everybody to follow him because he, you know, he like will broadcast his leadership. Uh, his, um, Monday on Mondays, he does a leadership coaching to his whole leadership team that he just broadcast because he wants people to just elevate their work and principles. So I love that.

Alyssa Nolte (YETI): 30:34

I love that. And if someone is really connected with you, they are looking to, you know, maximize their team to beat the S& P by 400%. How can they find you online?

Kendall Wallace: 30:45

Yeah, well, I, uh, you can DM me on Instagram at Kendall Wallace, 1, 2, 3, and especially if you are interested in any Any of, uh, the ways I organize my off sites or any of the exercises I use, I actually have over a hundred exercises that I give away for free in my playbook because I just want teams to be more harmonious and connected. So happy to, to give that to you, um, to help you plan your next virtual or in person experience, or just help understand what really creates connection. If you just DM me Alyssa plus playbook. Then on Instagram, I'll send it to you.

Alyssa Nolte (YETI): 31:26

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us on taking back Monday and we look forward to your continued success.

Kendall Wallace: 31:34

Thanks so much. Alyssa. This has been great.